Katy Gallagher says Robodebt reflects very poorly on the public service, reform will take years

Senator Gallagher, who is also Finance Minister, outlined on Sunday the "huge task" of rebuilding and repositioning a "devalued and debased" public service at the Chifley Research Centre conference in Canberra.

It comes after damning evidence to the Robodebt Royal Commission, with former portfolio Morrison ministers, Alan Tudge and Christian Porter, last week failing to address the robodebt's legality and finding it difficult to accept responsibility for the scheme. Earlier, the royal commission heard lawyers working in the Department of Social Services "feared" giving their then-secretary Kathryn Campbell news she would not have liked.

Senator Gallagher on Sunday described the unlawful and devastating scheme that data-matched tax and social security records as "a massive failure of public administration with catastrophic consequences".

"There isn't a way that you can watch those hearings and not scratch your head about 'how could this have possibly have happened?' How could it have gone through the levels, across departments and nobody stood up and said, you know, told the truth," the Minister told The Canberra Times.

"And I think that reflects very poorly on the public service. I don't think there's any way of dressing that up and saying it wasn't their fault. Like they had responsibilities as well, you know, as custodians and stewards of the public service."

The minister also attacked politicisation of the public service under the Morrison government, such as the appointment of Phil Gaetjens as the head of Prime Minister and Cabinet and outsourcing critical advice "that should have been done in house and they did so by billing by the hour".

She has tasked former Australian Public Service Commissioner and one of the commissioners of the Aged Care Royal Commission, Lynelle Briggs, to head an integrity review of public sector board appointments, a move designed to put an "end to the jobs for mates culture" in the public service.

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Senator Gallagher said it was part of the "unpicking" now underway from what she said was a "sustained assault" on the public service.

The Minister said the human cost of Robodebt was catastrophic.

"I think, for me, it just summed up the kind of the cultural problem that exists from a command and control 'you're not to do policy, we do the policy, you just deliver' kind of culture. A fearful culture and a culture of where the APS is subservient to executive government," she said.

"From my point of view, the APS stands alongside executive government. Yes, it delivers. It is the implementation arm of executive government, but it is its own enduring institution. And robodebt I guess sums up everything that was wrong about the approach that the former government had."

The Albanese government's broad APS reform work underway will take years, according to Senator Gallagher. And she said it will bake in reform through legislation to "entrench critical changes", including capability reviews.

"It will also importantly mean that if a future government wishes to unwind these laws, it will require a deliberate decision of government to do so and the support of the parliament to proceed," she explained to the conference.

"No more whittling and eroding away quietly over multiple terms in office."

Senator Gallagher insists change is happening.

"I'm sure it started, but it will take time because I think we've got to rebuild trust back in that relationship between executive government and public service," she said.

"It's gonna take some time and I think years of work to put in place everything that we need to do and for the public service to believe that we're serious about this as well."

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