Public Service Commissioner Gordon de Brouwer defends Public Service Amendment Bill, following criticism from Professor Andrew Podger

Dr de Brouwer was speaking at a committee hearing on the Albanese government's Public Service Amendment Bill, which if passed, would introduce a number of changes identified in the commission's reform agenda.

The bill would enshrine stewardship as an APS value, clarify that ministers can't direct agency bosses on individual employment matters, require agency heads to empower public servants at the lower ranks with more decision-making power and allow for periodic capability reviews of key departments and agencies.

It would also implement transparency measures: requiring the Secretaries Board to request and publish regular long-term insights reports into policies, and forcing agencies to publish APS Employee Census results.

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But former public service commissioner Professor Andrew Podger criticised the amendment for lacking might, and raised questions over whether the government would go further to bolster the public service.

"If all the provisions in this bill had been in the Public Service Act when the robodebt scheme was first proposed and managed, there is no reason to believe that they would have in any way constrained what happened," Professor Podger told the Senate finance and public administration committee.

"A central issue before the committee therefore is whether this bill represents the totality of the government's agenda for legislating change to reform the public service, or whether more is to be proposed later."

Professor Podger called on the committee to recommend deferral of the bill until the Albanese government commits to further changes to the legislation to implement changes recommended in the robodebt royal commission report.

These include a more robust merit-based process for the selection and termination of agency heads, strengthening the role of the APS Commissioner and a legislated code of conduct for ministerial staff.

Pressed about whether the amendment was just the first tranche of legislated reform, Dr de Brouwer said he could not give his opinion, but said incremental reform would lead to better outcomes.

"Dealing with everything in one fell swoop, well, that's tidy, but actually, you'd have to wait a fair while for other things to fall into place to do everything in one fell swoop," Dr de Brouwer told senators in the committee.

"Better to do it incrementally, [on a] no-regrets basis. Each of these things are on a no-regrets basis and they build on a series of things.

"They fit the times and they fit the interest of Parliament.

"They also go to, just frankly, the digestibility within public administration. If you change everything within one fell swoop, now immediately, it's very hard to absorb.

"If you've got a sequence of changes and they evolve and they happen over time, it's much easier to absorb and actually get deeper institutional change and behaviour."

But Greens senator Barbara Pocock, the party's spokesperson on the public sector, told Dr de Brouwer she was not satisfied with the rate of change.

"I just want to say for myself and I know for many people watching and thinking about reform in the public sector, there is a real sense of, a need for urgency.

"I think we have seen some really significant collapses of integrity that cause concern, I know they would be causing concern to you and obviously to the government.

"I hope we don't have to wait too long for addressing some problems that are very significant for our public sector."

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