A man accused of historical child sex abuse spoke to two self-help groups about what he had done, addressing an audience of "200 people" on one occasion, his alleged victim claims.
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Antonius van de Zandt, 72, is on trial in the ACT Supreme Court, where he denies charges of sexual intercourse with a child and committing an act of indecency on a child.
The former Civic restaurant manager admits he "sexually interfered with" niece, Queenie van de Zandt, who has consented to being identified in media reporting, in Kaleen in 1986.
However, defence lawyer Edward Chen has told jurors van de Zandt was "genuinely not awake" at the time in question.
On Wednesday, the jury was shown the end of an interview police conducted with Ms van de Zandt, the alleged victim, in 2021.
The alleged victim, who was 15 at the time in question, told investigators she remembered van de Zandt ringing her in about 1992.
Ms van de Zandt said he told her he and his wife had gone to a self-help course, where the man allegedly said he had "told everybody what I did".
"They've forgiven me and I've forgiven myself," van de Zandt allegedly said about this "amazing" self-help group.
Ms van de Zandt went on to describe how she attended a self-help course called Landmark Forum in about 2004.
"Through that, I came to a place where I really wanted to forgive him," she told police, adding that the course "opens your heart".
She said van de Zandt and his wife flew to Melbourne, at her request, to attend this course with her.
At the course, Ms van de Zandt said she had stood up in front of "200 people" and spoken about what had happened with her uncle.
The alleged victim told police van de Zandt then addressed the audience himself, which was "pretty brave on his part".
Ms van de Zandt said she had forgiven her uncle "because I thought it was an accident, almost an unconscious thing that he had done".
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The alleged victim also listened to an "amazing speech" by Grace Tame, an advocate for survivors of sexual assault.
These things, Ms van de Zandt told police, made her feel she would be "part of the problem" if she did not report her alleged experience.
During her evidence to the court, Ms van de Zandt said she recalled van de Zandt telling her "I thought you wanted it".
She said she had replied: "You're my f---ing uncle. Why would I want that?"
Asked by prosecutor Caitlin Diggins about the Landmark Forum, she said she did not recall exactly what van de Zandt told the audience but "he certainly didn't deny it".
The alleged victim said "the whole point" of van de Zandt being there was for him to acknowledge he had sexually abused her and for her to tell the audience she had forgiven him.
She also said she had admired van de Zandt because he had "never, ever denied it, ever, until now".
Under cross-examination by Mr Chen, Ms van de Zandt said she did not know whether the accused's eyes were closed during the incident because she was "staring at the ceiling".
She also denied that her uncle had been "sleep talking" during the incident, when he said he was "sorry".
"It had a sense of emotion in it," Ms van de Zandt said.
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